Continuing my thoughts today on roleplaying in 4th Ed. D&D, I was thinking about a way a player might introduce some roleplaying into the mix if he/she feels that there’s too much combat going on and the DM is getting a little too carried away with consecutive encounters. Use your skills.
Using Intimidate is a great way to quickly force your DM to roleplay his NPC’s and mobs in a fight. Per the rules, a player can use the skill to force a bloodied opponent to surrender or reveal a secret. That alone provides for great roleplaying opportunities. Not every fight has to end in the death of an NPC.
Make your DM have to act his guys out!
“I’m going to intimidate the Orc Chieftain. ‘Put down your axe! It’s over you vile creature!’ That’s my standard action. I roll a 22.” If you beat the Orc’s will save, a roleplaying encounter is born.
So yes, 4th Ed. modules are encounter heavy. But they also provide ample monsters that provide you with more than enough fodder to interact with and roleplay.
Try it this weekend, and surprise your DM! Make him have to give generic gnoll #2 a voice!
www. Newbie DM .com 
wickedmurph
May 1, 2009
It also helps if the DM is willing to do a little role-playing of the monsters. Fighting to the last should be avoided. I’ve had big monsters kick small ones around, or force them to un-surrender and keep fighting. Making sure that the enemies clearly have some personality, goals and aspirations, even if it’s just with little things (the goblin guard is praying to his god, for example, or doodling a picture of a naked female goblin).
Macguffin
May 1, 2009
lol, one of my players seems to get natural 20s when it is most entertaining, and never when he is using an attack.
stuck in a hole? natural 20 to jump out.
Intimidating some goblins? natural 20: let out a fierce roar, scare the weak ones into surrendering and cause the sub boss to flea. Then the interrogation comes, they got all the info they could, then the npc (used to fill out the party) doesn’t trust them enough to let them live.
Donny_the_DM
May 1, 2009
Great ideas newbie, but lets not get too tied up in the premise a lot of people seem to be losing sight of in this whole “mine is bigger AND better than yours” BS.
Not everyone wants to role-play. Feel the chill enter the room? It’s the big secret that the “old school” gamers cry about at night.
Some folks just want to hang out, eat pizza, shoot the breeze, and oh yeah – kill some monsters.
D&D isn’t the hide in your basement and be ostracized by everyone else hobby it used to be. Gamers aren’t over-compensating to make up for the fact that they are reviled anymore. I daresay that a large percentage, if not the outright majority feel that roleplay is whatever they say it is. If they feel that showing up, and killing orcs with their dice and character sheet is enough, who in the hell is anyone to say they are doing it wrong?
A lot of the folks I have sparred and conversed with would shiver just to think that roleplay has been reduced to a mere diceroll, while others wonder why they should need to do anything at all.
The sad truth is that based on most of my gaming experiences, the majority of eople I have been priveleged to play with are there more for the social interaction of playing what amounts to a board game (imagined or battlemat) with their close friends.
I don’t feel this is a bad thing at all 🙂
newbiedm
May 1, 2009
@Donny: Amen to that my brother.
Stuart
May 1, 2009
We ran into this during our last game – mopping up the stragglers. In future we’ll be sure to try intimidating the leaders and getting them to have the monsters surrender instead of fighting to the last man (er… monster)
kaeosdad
May 1, 2009
In the situation above, I would allow a roll, but at a massive penalty. The orc chieftain is definitely hostile and depending on circumstances reactions may be different.
In most cases, I would allow the dice roll but with a -10 to -15 to the roll. You have to be a scary ass intimidating mfer if the orc is hostile, he is outnumbering the party, or at the least feels they are stronger.
.. But!!!! In between fighting role playing would happen, the chieftain if he is confident will react to intimidation by attempting to intimidate the players. On a success I would give the orcs a temp +1 dmg bonus until a quarter of them become bloodied.
My players always use role playing in combat. I don’t always use a skill roll if it is obvious what the outcome of their actions will be. In other words if the player attempts something that is just idiotic and any one can see that it would NEEEEVER work then no skill roll is done. Or if the player attempts something absolutely trivial that you know for sure will succeed, skip the skill roll.
However for something where there is potential for either success or failure, set the bonuses/penalties and conditions then let them roll for it.
bgjosh
May 2, 2009
While this is a good and sound idea, you launch it from a place of incredible doucheiness.
Tricking your DM into “roleplaying2*” may seem like a good idea. Except that you have now purposefully acted like a jerk and tricked your DM. Justifying him acting like a jerk to you, and the whole game spirals into oblivion.
I suggest everyone at your table talks it over and agrees what kind of game you would like to play. A combat focused game like 4e or any of a number of otherly focused games. And it may not be optimal, but you can play a roleplaying2 based 4e game, if that’s the game you want to play.
I think you will find that in the long run it is better to work with, rather than fight with, your DM.
-Josh
BrilliantGameologists.com
*the term roleplaying has two definitions roleplaying1 means “playing a roleplaying game” roleplaying2 is a term for “talking/acting in character.” They are not actually equivalent.
newbiedm
May 2, 2009
I dont know if using the rules of the game in a situation that calls for it amounts to douchiness.
But since you are of the camp that believes 4th ed is just a combat game, i can see why it may seem that way. It is part of the rules of the game, and the dm should be expecting it, whether he rp’s or rp’s2… (terms i dont necessarily agree with btw)
Ameron
May 3, 2009
Although we generally don’t see a lot of role-playing during combat in our games, if a PC tries to use a skill in combat (like the Intimidate example used above) the DM usually isn’t sure how to handle the monster’s reaction. My feeling is if a PC uses a standard action to use a skill in place of an attack, it should have the potential to be as effective as an attack. So Intimidate may cause an enemy to cower or flee, Bluff may cause an enemy to look away or believe the PC isn’t threatening, etc. The use of a skill as a minor action tends to just be thrown in for role-playing flavour.
bgjosh
May 3, 2009
Anytime you are trying to pull one over on your other players (including the GM) You are not being very nice.
DnD “is” a combat game. It is also a game about skill checks and going on adventures. And while you can roleplay2, it has little effect on what happens.
-Josh
BrilliantGameologists.com
PS- How would you “define” roleplaying?
newbiedm
May 3, 2009
A miniatures skirmish game like warhamemr is a combat game.
D&D is an RPG that happens to have rules for settling combat encounters, along with other types of encounters (traps, hazards, environment).
The DM’s job is to provide encounters, challenges, drama, and conflict for the players to face and use the experience to grow their characters with. There can be whole D&D sessions with no fights or battles. I’ve seen them.
Defining roleplaying? Easy, you play the part of a character in a simulated world, and guide him as he grows in experience and faces challenges placed upon him by the DM. Some people do it in depth, some do it lightly, but all D&D players do it to an extent.
newbiedm
May 3, 2009
A miniatures skirmish game like warhamemr is a combat game.
D&D is an RPG that happens to have rules for settling combat encounters, along with other types of encounters (traps, hazards, environment).
The DM’s job is to provide encounters, challenges, drama, and conflict for the players to face and use the experience to grow their characters with. There can be whole D&D sessions with no fights or battles. I’ve seen them.
Defining roleplaying? Easy, you play the part of a character in a simulated world, and guide him as he grows in experience and faces challenges placed upon him by the DM. Some people do it in depth, some do it lightly, but all D&D players do it to an extent.
And seriously… how is using something the rules call an option to do during combat make you a douchbag??? I don’t get that. You are wrong there.
bgjosh
May 4, 2009
Quote: “Continuing my thoughts today on roleplaying in 4th Ed. D&D, I was thinking about a way a player might introduce some roleplaying into the mix if he/she feels that there’s too much combat going on and the DM is getting a little too carried away with consecutive encounters. Use your skills.
Using Intimidate is a great way to quickly force your DM to roleplay his NPC’s and mobs in a fight.”
Key word “force.” It is “not nice” to force or trick anyone, particularly the GM into anything. Better to discuss the game and voice your concerns and have everyone agree to include or not include things.
You get more flies with honesty than guile.
As for DnD not being a combat game, you are employing a classical dodge of personal semantics. Does DnD feature Combat? Yes. Don’t like the term combat? Call it “fighting” then.
Quote:”Defining roleplaying? Easy, you play the part of a character in a simulated world, and guide him as he grows in experience and faces challenges placed upon him by the DM. Some people do it in depth, some do it lightly, but all D&D players do it to an extent.”
This definition fails to cover all uses of the term. Have you heard people use the term to mean instead of making a Skill roll or have a combat they “playact” something out? Hence the reason to differentiate the two. I can see why it would be confusing if you had never heard the term used in that fashion.
What is wrong with roleplaying1 “playing a roleplaying game?” is there a time when you are not roleplaying while playing a roleplaying game?
Lou
May 4, 2009
Hey Newbie next time we get together to play or battle or rp1, rp2,rp^x,roleplay or whatever else I’m supposed to call it when we partake in the D&D experience I would like to discuss the session in detail. I don’t want anyone to be mean or trick anybody so I suggest you give your players a detailed explanation of the encounters you will present us with including our enemy’s stats( can I use the word enemy or is it too harsh?), abilities and how they intend to defeat us. In turn the party of players will inform you of how we plan on handling the encounter including alternate creative on the fly ideas which no doubt “force” you to alter your plans on how the enemy (hope I don’t offend anyone with this none pc term) will defeat us.
I want pure harmony at our table and don’t want any secrets to be kept from anyone, no unexpected surprises ok cause that’s mean and underhanded. After this is done we can fully enjoy the session by rolling dice and seeing whose side probability is on. This is my kind of session, no surprises, no one is mean to each other and dwarves and elves hold hands and sing at the camp fire, none of that previous D&D hateful dwarves and elves don’t get along stuff, that’s not nice!
Lou