I see a lot of hate spewed at 4th Ed. by the 3.x crowd. I guess almost ten years worth of gaming material both by WOTC & 3rd parties isn’t enough to foster years and years of further playing, but what do I know, I’m just a newb. I guess we all have our reasons as to why we play a certain edition of D&D: the 1st Ed. guys love the Gygaxian feel of things, while 2nd Ed guys love THACO in all its glory, and the 3rd Ed guys wanted more books to sit next to the 235 other 3.x books in the collection.
Me? I like the simplicity of 4th Ed. You see, I’m a busy guy in my mid-thirties. I have a stressful job as a tv producer. I come home, and I have a wife and two little kids that require a lot of attention, and to be honest I don’t have the time to devote to a game that has a complicated rule set or long preparation times. With 4th Ed., I find that encounter building is simple, the rules are fairly easy to learn, character creation is quick and the overall system lends itself to a simple rpg. Is it dumbed down? It may be, but honestly, I don’t care. It’s just what a guy like me needs. I like to sit around with friends for a few hours, talk smack, eat pizza, and play D&D. I’m not looking for simulations or realism. I’m a guy that is in a different demographic than the high school or college kid that can devote more time to his favorite hobby. And rest assured kids, you’ll get here soon enough.
So I want to conduct a completely unscientific poll: How many of you 4th Ed. players are like me? How many of you have the same types of things going on in life that I do, and find that the game caters better to your situation?
In fact, I’m going to run an handy poll here to get your ages, and see what demographics we are talking about.
I look forward to your comments.
www. Newbie DM .com 
mudbunny
June 9, 2009
Speak the truth brother!!
steve
June 9, 2009
I’m 30, I work full time doing tech support for a school district, and I do side work fixing computers for people in the community. I’m married and have a kid on the way. Time is not something that I have a lot of. I like that I can basically plan out a 4th edition session in an hour or so. I planned this weeks session on the plane this weekend.
So, yea, I’d say I’m in the same demographic.
James Wyatt
June 9, 2009
I like that. It’s an interesting question, and I’m curious to see how the responses turn out. My feeling is that a game that requires less prep time is good for everyone, regardless of age and life situation—you can spend less time working on stats and rules, and focus more on the story of the adventure and the campaign.
mike
June 9, 2009
Reverend!
Thought i think 4e will fast surpass 3.x in books, i agree with you. Its simple. I can spit out a delve in the time it takes all my players to make characters.
The older games were fun, but it wasn’t the system that made it fun it was the people
Aaron Glimme
June 9, 2009
Spot on! Way too much going on in my life, I can get a sitter for the kids for a few hours and invite some friends over and have a great time. I used to play 15 years ago and the new version seems much streamlined. I’m loving it!
xerosided
June 9, 2009
I’m in my late twenties, but I’m in the same demo. After a 40+ hour work week and all the other things going on in my life, I don’t have the time or energy to sit and spend countless hours planning out the nitty gritty details of my game’s next session.
Ian Wheat (Is_907)
June 9, 2009
Interestingly, I’m only 20 but still love the lack of time I can run a game on. I’m in uni classes, my wife works, we love to be together, we’re moving soon… and I DM a game every week.
Like the good Mr Wyatt said, being able to focus on the story of an adventure/campaign makes 4th edition great for me. Although I am looking forward to trying Pathfinder.
On the other side of the coin, though, is this thought:
If your players are experienced enough you can run a rules-heavy game quickly and effectively. We used to play the Warhammer 40k RPG, Dark Heresy, weekly, and after a short while we had it down to an art.
Lots of elements in this time-vs-rules equation.
Stuart
June 9, 2009
4e is only simple compared to 3.5 with 235 expansion books.
It’s in no way simple compared to Basic D&D (or Swords & Wizardry, or Labyrinth Lord, etc).
I really, really wanted to like 4e more but it’s simply not that… simple a game. (heh) Not when compared to other versions of D&D I could play, anyway. 4e has stuff going for it, but simplicity honestly isn’t one of those things.
roborus
June 9, 2009
I can’t personally relate prep time to game preference, mainly because 3e came out when I was in university – free time was present and abundant. And yet it is the only edition of D&D I never played or ran because it failed to be compelling to me. I did buy the core books; I read them; and I stayed with 2e.
I was concerned that 4e would be the same result (books on shelf) but it hasn’t turned out that way. It feels fun to play around with making characters and monsters, which was my AD&D experience. So from a different angle maybe I’m saying the same thing as you. As a busy 30-something working/family guy I am interested in spending some of my available time on 4e.
EE Jones
June 9, 2009
Everyone in my gaming group falls in the 28-35 category, working full time with families and all the responsibilities that entails. Of course, before playing RPGs we would get together for games of Catan, Ticket to Ride, or A Game of Thrones. 4E seemed pretty easy to sell to these guys and gals. Got them started with a one-shot I ran, and now I haven’t been able to DM again! Everyone wants a shot behind the screen, and I think it’s because of the ease of prep and setup.
PrecociousApprentice
June 9, 2009
Nice. Seems to be a perfect normal curve with only a very slight skew upward.
And yes, I fit the author’s demographic perfectly. Early 30s with a wife, kids, and more responsibility than time. I even liked 3e for a time (crunchy fits my math predilection), but limited time killed that love affair pretty quick. I now split my gaming between 4e and a fantasy adaptation of Spirit of the Century.
SotC is actually more fun, but I needs me some crunchy bits now and then. 4e has plenty enough to make me happy, and still doesn’t drown itself in a ton of cumbersome crap. My gaming group prefers SotC, but I am trying to steal all the fun things from 4e and create my own Spirit of the Tactical Skirmish Wargames homebrew. Limited time makes it slow going, so right now we just mostly play both 4e and SotC.
4e has turned out to be the best thing in D&D for me since I started playing in the 80’s. Without it, I just didn’t play.
PrecociousApprentice
June 9, 2009
I have an interesting question for you to add to the conversation. What do you think is the breakdown of 4e players in terms of DMing experience? How many people DM now that didn’t before? Of those who violently reject 4e, how many were DM’s in previous editions?
3e was delightfully crunchy for players. It was a nightmare to DM. 2e and 1e weren’t as bad as 3e, and basic was pretty simple, but I find DMing 4e to be the easiest of them all. Could be my mindset now, but I am curious about other’s experience.
newbiedm
June 9, 2009
I can see where the comments here are skewing towards, I wasn’t that off the mark… interesting…
newbiedm
June 9, 2009
@PrecociousApprentice: In my case, I didn’t dare DM until 4th Ed. came about.
Steve V
June 10, 2009
I’m 44, work at a research facility studying nuclear fusion, have a wife, a house that constantly requires fixing- never ever buy a fix-it-yourself house for cheap unless you really do have the time and money. On top of that my wife owns a horse and she doesn’t drive so we are there for at least a couple of hours every single day. We don’t have kids yet, but we are planning on having one in a year or two.
I just don’t have the time to devote a tremendous amount of time to running a game, but enjoy the fruits of doing so. (Besides no one else is interested in doing so.) 4e for me is so much easier to write up and run than 3.X ever was, and we all find it a lot more fun because of this. Our group is definitely a beer and pretzels group. We just have fun getting together, eating pizza, drinking a few beers, and playing D&D.
I’ve been playing/DMing since ’81. (Started with the Moldvay set , worked my way to AD&D, then so on and so forth.) Most of my players have been playing and DMed since 2nd edition. One player that just joined never played pen and paper RPG’s, he only played computer games. he was always kind of interested in trying to play, but it wasn’t until 4e came out that he finally took the plunge. The ages in my group go from 21-44.
Michael Harrison
June 10, 2009
Great poll. Like most people who responded, I fall into the busy family-guy role. Thankfully my wife plays in our group and she’ll give me a few hours on game day to prepare, but I’ve found prep time and easy-to-read, easy-to-play statblocks really make for a quick setup.
Sean Brady
June 10, 2009
I am in the same boat as many of the commenter’s. Late 30’s, Ft job, 2 kids, an house, swim practice etc. I share the same feeling as many that 4e is simply easier to prep for and play. The character builder is a huge part of this for me and my players because it makes character creation so easy. Perhaps I would not feel the same way if CB was not available.
I recall my first experience DM’ing in 3e and I was using a Goodman DCC module. One of the first encounters was vs. a Celestial Eagle, and after the party defeated it I said something to the effective of” the birds carcass falls to the ground with a splat of blood.” One of the players turned to me and said something like, “well if it was a celestial eagle it would just ‘poof’ back to it’s plane”. That kind of fiddliness is what bothered me about 3e and made prep so much work. I don’t find things like that in 4e. I am only at session #2 in my 4e game, but things are just so much more straight forward to me.
Bruno Cobbi
June 10, 2009
Count me in on ur attitude! 27 years on sunday! From Brazil! 😀
Well placed arguments. Very honest from you.
(Tip: The poll’s place (in the end of the post) may induce some results, don’t u think?)
Donny_the_DM
June 10, 2009
Same here. 31, civil servant 2 of my own kids, plus one from the roommate. Life is hectic, life is interesting. Unfortunately, one thing I do not have time for is a lot of prep. 4E knocked it out of the park on that one.
While it has been difficult getting immersed in a game that is designed to be a chain of set-piece encounters, my group and I have embraced it. It works for us, and works well.
It’s nice to see an edition specific post of any kind that hasn’t devolved into the endless crap that has been happening elsewhere.
MJ Harnish
June 11, 2009
I meet your demographic description as well (30-something, married, 2 kids, FT job). While 3E was garbage (yes, I did say that) and 4E is an improvement in terms of prep time and simplicity, it’s by no means a low-prep game, nor is it simple, especially once characters get beyond the Heroic tier. Keeping track of powers and combat is a nightmare once you hit Epic level in my experience.
If you want a low prep game, try something like Spirit of the Century, Dogs in the Vineyard, or Primetime Adventures. I can run those games with no prep at all and have never had a bad session doing so. Even Burning Wheel, which is far crunchier (at least at first) than 4E is much lower prep – it takes me less than an hour to prep for a session in my current campaign and all the players (who largely come from traditional D&D-type backgrounds) love it.
So, yes 4E is appealing for the change in game style and complexity compared to 3E but it’s by far not a low prep or particularly “good” game for me.
Chris King
June 12, 2009
I agree. Four kids, a job planning for city-wide emergencies, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, school and independent kid sports and activities. I’m thankful four our GM who started a game nearby. I really missed playing, and I find it a real stress-relief to concentrate on something *I* want to do once a week or so.
David K.
June 14, 2009
I’m 46, and have been DMing since 1978. Any time I have for myself comes at the expense of sleep. I’m still unsure about 4th Edition.
AD&D (“1st Edition”) had the advantage over many other RPGs that it was so abstract that the mechanics of the fighting stayed well out of the way of roleplaying and story. The rules of editions 2, 3 and 3.5 got involved with non-combat play, but weren’t too cumbersome. I feel that 4th edition tries to more extensively mechanic roleplay, and it very strongly encourages dungeon crawls.
All the hype before the arrival of 4th edition was about how it was simpler and easier. Really the only simpler things are creating encounters, and reading stat blocks. Neither of those is a difference in the rules, merely in their presentation (stat blocks) and support (D&D Insider tools, which are necessary only because the system got so much more complex).
4th Edition is great for having an inexperienced, distracted DM throw together a combat encounter for a beer and pretzels group. Running it is a different matter, with all the marks, ongoing effects, and so on. And the process of creating and running skill challenges is, well, challenging.
I’m still working on starting up my new campaign with 4th ed rules, but I’m keeping my eyes open for indications that we should switch to 3.5, or something else. The main advantages for me of 4th ed:
– I’m starting this new campaign (after 27 years of the previous one) largely for the next generation, and from what I’ve heard and seen that generation (either because of their ages or more likely their culture) find 4e more appealing than previous editions of D&D.
– I, like most players and DMs, prefer to play the current and best-supported edition, all else being equal.
– If you use skill challenges in moderation, 4e does a pretty good job of staying out of the way of roleplaying.
– In editions 3 and 3.5 the rather-elegant and flexible rules included some serious holes. One of those holes was a substantial problem for my new campaign setting.
Reasons to avoid 4th Edition:
– The cost of the many books. Instead of just the PHB, many (most?) players will need the 4th ed PHB, PHB 2 and/or PHB 3, and at least one Power book. That’s a minimum of 2 or 3 books — a substantial increase in the cost to play (ignoring the waste of any prior investment). The Compendium helps, here, so players might be able to get away with a DDI membership (which is pretty expensive on its own, compared to previous RPG costs) and borrowing the rule books for those things missing from the Compendium (and there are plenty).
– The World of Warcraft feel of combat, which seems designed to appeal to teenage males. Every woman I know and from whom I’ve heard an opinion about 4th Edition dislikes the new rules. I don’t relish going from a 30-50% female gaming group to a 0-10% female gaming group because the rules were modified to appeal to testosterone.
I must admit, all versions of D&D appear to have been designed with teenage boys in mind. But to illustrate the problem, one of the women playing in my previous campaign explicitly wanted a non-combat character. She would not have played otherwise. There is no such thing as a non-combat character in the 4th Edition.
In summary: Do you want a story, or just a game? If the latter, 4th Edition is probably for you. If you want to effectively write a group novel… it really depends on your taste in fiction.
Stuart
June 15, 2009
@David K:
I think that sounds pretty accurate… although if you’re not trying to target the “next generation”, don’t place value much on playing the “current and best supported version” (what difference does that really make outside of RPGA?), and aren’t comparing it exclusively to 3/3.5 (eg. B/X, AD&D) then 4e loses a lot of those positive qualities for me.
gjnave
June 23, 2009
This blog nails it: Gaming really started with our generation(s). The young geeks have all grown up and now have kids, wives, jobs, etc… We 1) still want to game (and honestly I game to unwind) 2) dont have the time that we did as a kid (sigh) 3) want to get in and out so that we can not get dismembered by our families for ignoring them.
Gaming (table top and video games) have evolved into something that you can get into quickly, have a rewarding experience, and then bail.
M.
August 6, 2009
“Every woman I know and from whom I’ve heard an opinion about 4th Edition dislikes the new rules. I don’t relish going from a 30-50% female gaming group to a 0-10% female gaming group because the rules were modified to appeal to testosterone.
I must admit, all versions of D&D appear to have been designed with teenage boys in mind. But to illustrate the problem, one of the women playing in my previous campaign explicitly wanted a non-combat character. She would not have played otherwise. There is no such thing as a non-combat character in the 4th Edition.” – Chris King
This is without a doubt one of the best and fairest criticisms of the 4th edition I have come by.
newbiedm
August 6, 2009
@M.: But then the question becomes, why play d&d… it’s always been a combat-centric game anyway.
M.
August 7, 2009
newbiedm,
“But then the question becomes, why play d&d… it’s always been a combat-centric game anyway.”
but not every player or player character is combat centric. having played a part in campaigns spanning years in which some characters never raised their voices let alone weapons against a monster or npc i find your remark somewhat cold. not everyone wants to be a martial character. otherwise parties lean toward an homogeny thats hardly making the most of gamers imaginations. some of the most fulfilling sessions i have had have had no encounters what so ever. ultimately with regard to gender women and men will opt for different types of characters regardless of gender. combat centricity may not be a problem but a problem has still been identified. if chris kings observations are indicative of broader demographics and indeed female gamers are turning their backs on the game then somethings not working. i would wager that the phallocentricity of your “why bother” attitude isnt helping either. had you expressed concern about the issue of an exodus of female gamers i might not be so cynical.
newbiedm
August 7, 2009
@m: I think you are right, and I should stand corrected, although i do still think that the game has always been combat heavy, it is worth examining why the exodus of female players.
I do think, however that a lot of it has to do with perceptions of the new system and familiarity with the older system these peolple may have been playing.
There is an article in this months Dragon that tackles the issue of “lack of roleplaying” in 4th edition, it’s very good and would encourage people feeling this way to read it.
But yes, you are right.
My attitude may stem from never having sat at a table to play d&d with a woman in my 20 years of playing.
🙂
John M. T'Lustachowski
January 6, 2012
Heh! OK: I’m 42, Graphic artist, Married to a former model! We have two kids and number three on the way. I have played every edition of D&D and 4th Edition is hands down my favorite! I don’t think it is dumbed down. I think 3.5 was just plain convoluted! Honestly, that was a rules attorney game! But Dawn and I do the same thing: Once a week when the kids are down, have friends over, Pizza Hut delivers a meal, and we talk and play for an hour or three.