Comments on: How To Be An Effective Dungeon Master

By: Dan Burnett

Dan Burnett — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 00:48:44 +0000

I really don’t think there should be an ‘out’. It’s death. Take that away from the game, and people start to question DM motives. If you play the monsters how they’re supposed to be played, then it’s an even playing field. Saying this, you can assume most monsters are happy with a foe dropping unconscious. But if these are enemies that want the players DEAD- either for revenge or being instructed to kill and make sure to kill- then it is not absurd, mean or villainous on the dm’s part to ensure that the monsters follow through on those actions- yes, even minions. Granted, this style is certainly not for everyone. But my games are light-hearted and fun as is, if I took away the element of certain death, it would be TOO light hearted. Character Death, Difficult Challenges and Uncertainty are the reason I’m switching to 4e. It’s more rewarding.

By: Dan

Dan — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:08:06 +0000

I think there should always be an ‘out’ for the player. It’s death as the default consequence that I take issue with. In D&D, things are a little different, due to resurrection spells, so it’s easier to kill someone. However, when that last player drops, I’d rather the survivors come to in some interesting situation than go ‘whelp, that was fun’

How many novels end with the protagonists all dying and the antagonists getting what they want?

By: Stuart

Stuart — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:54:22 +0000

How do you decide when it’s appropriate for a player to die then? Minions can’t kill PCs? PCs only die when the DM thinks it’s appropriate? Or only when the player thinks it’s appropriate? PCs only die when the player turns off the fail-safe system and takes a greater risk (eg. I keep fighting at negative hit points!)

If it’s just at the DMs whim when characters live or die I think you lose a lot from the game.

By: Dan

Dan — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:36:49 +0000

An undead huge rat swarm would be epic. Failure can be awesome. Failing my stealth check, and having to fight or talk my way out of trouble makes good story. It’s a hero meeting his end in an uninteresting way.

Imagine Ben Kenobi getting picked off
by some stormtrooper before the fight with Vader.

By: DiceGolem

DiceGolem — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 06:01:24 +0000

Unless you were killed by a Huge-sized swarm of animated rat corpses. Now THAT would be epic!

@Don Burnett: You have the right zeal, but I don’t agree with you fully. Failure is never fun. Rogues never like it when they roll low enough on a Stealth check that the monsters notice them. If those same monsters kill them, it sucks even worse. Sure, you’re following the rules and playing the monsters as they were intended, but the whole party was supposed to be there. “Too bad” isn’t an acceptable answer.

However, there is a ton of real fun to be had when you overcome a challenge. Sure, the dice conspired against that Rogue in this encounter; possible failure is part of the challenge. But couldn’t that monster hold the Rogue captive instead? Imagine the tense skill challenge as the rest of the party tries to negotiate for his release! Imagine the players talking amongst themselves, weeks later: “You’re scouting ahead, again? Do you have enough rope with you, just in case the Kobolds don’t want to use any of theirs?” “Nah, I’m bringing manacles this time. ^_^”

By: Dan

Dan — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 04:21:13 +0000

But it’s gotta be a good death. (and by death, I’m meaning a permanent character death, not a resurrection). I think it should be a choice on the player’s part. That sacrifice should be a god story. These are heroes, not to be taken down by a swarm of rats. It should matter.

By: Dan Burnett

Dan Burnett — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 04:07:11 +0000

On the contrary, I think that dying is one of the most exciting parts of a characters tale. In my old Seventh Sea game, I feel, (due partly to the unbalanced rules) I couldn’t throw a combat encounter at these guys that would make them blink their eye. It was so cinematic. 4E has a super balanced element to it. I can now design encounters where if my players DONT play wisely and strategically, they CAN die. and WILL. We never had that in ALL the sessions of 7th sea that we played. It was sort of just like story telling at that point. Which is not a BAD thing, but it took that ‘game’ element out of it. Failure is FUN. Failure is learning. The challenge is what makes it amazing. and besides, with the plethora of races and classes in 4e, is dying really THAT bad anyway? It’s f’ing epic, is what it is.

By: raevhen

raevhen — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 03:57:34 +0000

Doesn’t his neutral stance conflict with Chatty’s “Rule of Cool”?
I am the final arbiter at my table, but I also realize I am there to provide a fun experience for my players. I had a player make a character for my game and after 5 levels realized he did not playing a paladin and wanted to re-image the character as a Fighter. A Neutral DM would follow RAW, instead I said “Yes” and let him re-image the character.
While I agree with the spirit of neutrality, I think we need to also realize that we are all at the table to have fun, and fun needs rules and structure, or it becomes unfair and unfun. So don’t be a hard ass, nor a push-over, and make it cool.

By: Lyndsay

Lyndsay — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 03:30:52 +0000

@Dan that’s exactly it – he’s out to beat the players. He doesn’t want to engage in the shared storytelling that makes a D&D adventure such a fun thing to do.

By: Colmarr

Colmarr — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 00:16:37 +0000

I posted a sort-of-reply to this post over on my own blog. I was hoping to leave a trackback here but I can’t figure out how to do it

http://astralsea.blogspot.com/2010/03/is-decision-making-dms-right.html