Comments on: To Fudge or Not to Fudge, That is the Question

By: by_the_sword

by_the_sword — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 21:36:54 +0000

I don’t fudge die rols and i try my best to keep the ‘deus ex machina’ to a minimum. One way I do favor the players when I see them getting their asses kicked, is to use bad monster tactics or not use, or under-use monster abilities. Bear in mind, in the old days there were certain beasties that could TPK a party without any effort on the DM’s behalf (the basilisk and the beholder come to mind) but I suspect that with the save-or-die effects removed and the players character’s classes more balanced in power and their combat roles more clearly defined, TPK’s will become much more rare.

As a player, I would want the DM not to fudge and I would take my lumps. But I am an experienced gamer and I know what it is like to sit on either side of the screen.

By: Namtaws

Namtaws — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 05:40:43 +0000

I must admit that DMing without a screen is quite freeing. I feel I am more part of the game and have more fun myself, and the players don’t mind at all. In fact they as well were more entertained by the fact that I was able to prove that my luck is better as a DM. Fifteen or so nat 20s a night lucky, when as a player I can’t even roll above an eight. I am going to continue to DM without a screen because we’re all having a great time. And that is what it is all about.

By: Dixon Trimline

Dixon Trimline — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:58:22 +0000

While I like the idea of “full disclosure” in a game, rolling right out in the open, there is a psychological toll which can very easily knock otherwise engaged players right out of the game. That’s when the DM throws a 7 (causing the players to momentarily celebrate), and then announces, “19! Hit!”

While I don’t boast an advanced mathematics degree, even I can determine that this freaking monster has a +12 to hit. What?!? That’s outrageous! This encounter is too hard! You’re trying to kill us! You have a bad haircut!

Players can be mean.

Anyway, while the derived bonus may SEEM big, it’s typically no larger than what the players are getting. Building your encounters through XP buying, it’s pretty easy to set the battle difficulty, which means the characters and monsters would have roughly similar hit points, defenses, and damage dealt.

Logically, those players are getting the same bonuses as the monsters, but does logic really enter into the discussion when there are players who insist they have lucky dice?

By: Thunderforge

Thunderforge — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:24:39 +0000

Role-playing games are first and foremost about having fun. I fudge the dice if not doing so would put the players in a situation that they aren’t going to have fun. That’s not to say that I fudge the dice every time it will turn out badly or kill a player. But I will fudge them if, say, the players have been rolling poorly and the Dragon’s breath attack will kill them all in one shot. Nobody has fun in a situation like that. I think that such a philosophy is more important In systems that aren’t as structured and “safe” as D&D, but applies to it as well.

By: newbiedm

newbiedm — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:47:40 +0000

@Colmarr – That’s what I’m saying. The randomness is the only thing in the game you can’t control, so it shouldn’t be messed with. It adds something to the game.

Everything else, every stat block, every npc or monster, everything else is there for the dm to play with. There is no need to fudge dice in D&D.

By: Colmarr

Colmarr — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:55:17 +0000

A year or so ago, I would have disagreed with you NewbieDM.

However, I’ve been fortunate enough to play under a DM for that year who has proven that there are other ways to fudge than to deliberately ignore the dice. Time and again he has ended fights early by secretly lowering monster hit points. Or made fights easier by not rolling for recharge on powers that should, or making them encounter rather than recharge.

And the only reason I know is that he and I discuss meta-game issues after the game.

I have to say that his practice seems much more effective than my old attempts at fudging.

By: wanderingclover

wanderingclover — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:32:36 +0000

I haven’t had a chance to actually DM yet, (still waiting on the books to get here) but fudging the dice will probably be something that I will do. At least for a while.
I’ll be DMing (for the first time ever) with a group that has never played D&D before. Actually, none of us have played before. So for me, fudging is just a way to keep us from possibly getting frustrated if we’re dying all the time.
Maybe the practice of fudging the dice is situational? I wonder how many DM’s out there fudged the dice with new players vs seasoned ones. Or fudging more as a rookie DM compared to a seasoned one.

By: Tyson J. Hayes

Tyson J. Hayes — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:50:11 +0000

I used to be a fudger but the current game I’m running I decided to roll in front of the players, I don’t fudge the dice and I haven’t killed anyone yet. I can’t decide if it’s that my players are lucky or if it’s the proper challenge rating I’m giving them.

By: juddthelibrarian

juddthelibrarian — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:02:12 +0000

Gotcha.

I’m a no-fudge, no save’em type of GM. I am fine with the epic tale being a tragic cautionary of lives lost during a dungeon delve.

Let the dice fall where they may.

By: newbiedm

newbiedm — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 13:09:18 +0000

@Judd: I think the best way to do it so it doesn’t feel so abrupt and gimmicky, is to plan it out ahead of time. Using the dragon example, if you’d really want to avoid a tpk in this encounter, have a plan b in your pocket from when you are prepping your encounter. If you feel the tide of battle swaying towards a tpk, start to roll out your plan… in one round, the dragon “senses something, and completely ignores you, like if he hears it also… make perception checks…” maybe the dragon can hear an enemy approaching… reinforcements… a perception check let’s a pc hear something approaching as well… use this round of distraction to allow heals or further attacks… that sort of thing, don’t just barge the door open in one round with a “Surprise! We’re here to rescue you!” but rather build up to it organically, although the most jerky of players will always call you on something, you can’t help that.