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	<title>Comments on: Warstories: Player vs. Player at the table.</title>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/10/22/warstories-player-vs-player-at-the-table/#comment-9189</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 04:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1209#comment-9189</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have used linking the characters mortality together. &quot;The goddess (insert name here) decends and (add dramatic effects here). Your bickering has caused me to loose a wager with (insert name of other god or powerful being here). From here forward your essences will be eternaly and mortally linked.&quot; Bolth characters add their HP together for a total score. when one character recieves damage the other does as well. If one dies the other dies a s well and they bolth roll up a new character.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have used linking the characters mortality together. &#8220;The goddess (insert name here) decends and (add dramatic effects here). Your bickering has caused me to loose a wager with (insert name of other god or powerful being here). From here forward your essences will be eternaly and mortally linked.&#8221; Bolth characters add their HP together for a total score. when one character recieves damage the other does as well. If one dies the other dies a s well and they bolth roll up a new character.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Hartman</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/10/22/warstories-player-vs-player-at-the-table/#comment-9134</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt Hartman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2011 03:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1209#comment-9134</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I guess my group has always done lots of PvP at the drop of a hat. We seem to think of it as natural at this point and I suppose it is, given that many of the PCs have vastly different allignments and goals. Not to mention one player (who eventually decided he didn&#039;t fit well with the group and left) always insisted on playing these total psychos who started shooting NPCs and other players whenever he got a bit bored.

It certainly hasn&#039;t wrecked our group, and I think if anything it&#039;s better roleplaying than just having conflicts miraculously not happen when they should. But probably it&#039;s good to at least make sure everyone knows PvP will be allowed beforehand and to at least make sure people have reasonable, in-character motivations for it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess my group has always done lots of PvP at the drop of a hat. We seem to think of it as natural at this point and I suppose it is, given that many of the PCs have vastly different allignments and goals. Not to mention one player (who eventually decided he didn&#8217;t fit well with the group and left) always insisted on playing these total psychos who started shooting NPCs and other players whenever he got a bit bored.</p>
<p>It certainly hasn&#8217;t wrecked our group, and I think if anything it&#8217;s better roleplaying than just having conflicts miraculously not happen when they should. But probably it&#8217;s good to at least make sure everyone knows PvP will be allowed beforehand and to at least make sure people have reasonable, in-character motivations for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Betrayal: Player vs Player &#124; SURPRISE ROUND 不意打ち!</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/10/22/warstories-player-vs-player-at-the-table/#comment-7890</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Betrayal: Player vs Player &#124; SURPRISE ROUND 不意打ち!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2011 22:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1209#comment-7890</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] am well aware that this can go a number of different ways, with disaster being a possible outcome, but betrayal rears its ugly head as [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] am well aware that this can go a number of different ways, with disaster being a possible outcome, but betrayal rears its ugly head as [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/10/22/warstories-player-vs-player-at-the-table/#comment-7647</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frank]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jan 2011 04:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1209#comment-7647</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My last campaign was Star Wars Saga Edition. One of the players was a smuggler with a knack for slicing and going into the crimelord prestige class. Well he was siphoning credits from the rich noble in the group to actually do some good things with that money since the noble, who was mandalorian was throwing his weight around but reluctant to help the Galactic Alliance (Legacy Era)

The smuggler kept taking some some unwarranted  heat from the noble, no one in the group knew that the smuggler was taking credits even though they were all being played by the smugglers very own droid.

Well the smuggler decides he wants a 2nd character to take a break from the watchful eyes of the noble and his protector friend and makes a Jedi, tells me to run the smuggler since he does not think he will go back to him.

Well it so happened that event seemed to make the noble player more bold and decided to call out his smuggling friends droid as a criminal. The droid makes a run for it and actually succeeds at kidnapping two of the players. When word of the kidnapping gets to them he orders the now NPC smuggler to the brig. Even though the droid tells them hey my master was a dupe, I follow a different master and played you as fools.

Well this just angered the player more and he wanted the smuggler thrown in carbonite. On the way down in the lift, I have the smuggler start talking trash as per how he would be played. This angered the mando soldier and who ended up killing the smuggler for threatening his boss. Needless to say I could have stopped it but I was downright mad they took it this far because he was now an NPC and they could act on their desires.

I do not mind rivalries in the party but the killing of a player even one turned into an NPC was downright wrong. My fix was to say the smuggler had a replica droid and was warned by the Jedi there was betrayal from friends. Sneaky but this guy had actually hooked up the party and helped keep them alive more than once.

If I want that kind of game, I have a friend who is an adversarial GM who views games as something to win, it is fun to a point until the party attacks start.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My last campaign was Star Wars Saga Edition. One of the players was a smuggler with a knack for slicing and going into the crimelord prestige class. Well he was siphoning credits from the rich noble in the group to actually do some good things with that money since the noble, who was mandalorian was throwing his weight around but reluctant to help the Galactic Alliance (Legacy Era)</p>
<p>The smuggler kept taking some some unwarranted  heat from the noble, no one in the group knew that the smuggler was taking credits even though they were all being played by the smugglers very own droid.</p>
<p>Well the smuggler decides he wants a 2nd character to take a break from the watchful eyes of the noble and his protector friend and makes a Jedi, tells me to run the smuggler since he does not think he will go back to him.</p>
<p>Well it so happened that event seemed to make the noble player more bold and decided to call out his smuggling friends droid as a criminal. The droid makes a run for it and actually succeeds at kidnapping two of the players. When word of the kidnapping gets to them he orders the now NPC smuggler to the brig. Even though the droid tells them hey my master was a dupe, I follow a different master and played you as fools.</p>
<p>Well this just angered the player more and he wanted the smuggler thrown in carbonite. On the way down in the lift, I have the smuggler start talking trash as per how he would be played. This angered the mando soldier and who ended up killing the smuggler for threatening his boss. Needless to say I could have stopped it but I was downright mad they took it this far because he was now an NPC and they could act on their desires.</p>
<p>I do not mind rivalries in the party but the killing of a player even one turned into an NPC was downright wrong. My fix was to say the smuggler had a replica droid and was warned by the Jedi there was betrayal from friends. Sneaky but this guy had actually hooked up the party and helped keep them alive more than once.</p>
<p>If I want that kind of game, I have a friend who is an adversarial GM who views games as something to win, it is fun to a point until the party attacks start.</p>
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		<title>By: Siduin</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/10/22/warstories-player-vs-player-at-the-table/#comment-7204</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Siduin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2010 18:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1209#comment-7204</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i also forgot to mention that i was the one who got everyone togeather in the first place to play and the first night that i passed beaing the DM i was murdered!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i also forgot to mention that i was the one who got everyone togeather in the first place to play and the first night that i passed beaing the DM i was murdered!</p>
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		<title>By: Siduin</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/10/22/warstories-player-vs-player-at-the-table/#comment-7203</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Siduin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2010 18:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1209#comment-7203</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[in a 4.0 game i was playing i had a chaotic Evil barbarian who while fighting in the forest lit a dire bear on fire burning  almost the whole forest down. at the time i thought it would be really cool to have a raging flaming Dire Bear trying to take vengence on me. while the encouter became really cool trying to dodge the bear and avoid the flames to reach a lake that would offer safty once we got there i was symultanously jumped by two of the other players and murdered about an hour into a 4 hour night. luckly one of the other players dident show up and i got to play their character but it was a bumer to get killed for following your allingment....  i was permitted to make a new charater though and it wil be introdised in the next game session.  thre wirdest part is that burning down the forest dident do anything overtly bad the town nearby dident get burned, all the animals in the encounter escaped and we got a free ride to the next aria without any problem. man i almost diden&#039;t want to come back and keep playing after that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in a 4.0 game i was playing i had a chaotic Evil barbarian who while fighting in the forest lit a dire bear on fire burning  almost the whole forest down. at the time i thought it would be really cool to have a raging flaming Dire Bear trying to take vengence on me. while the encouter became really cool trying to dodge the bear and avoid the flames to reach a lake that would offer safty once we got there i was symultanously jumped by two of the other players and murdered about an hour into a 4 hour night. luckly one of the other players dident show up and i got to play their character but it was a bumer to get killed for following your allingment&#8230;.  i was permitted to make a new charater though and it wil be introdised in the next game session.  thre wirdest part is that burning down the forest dident do anything overtly bad the town nearby dident get burned, all the animals in the encounter escaped and we got a free ride to the next aria without any problem. man i almost diden&#8217;t want to come back and keep playing after that.</p>
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		<title>By: erebus</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/10/22/warstories-player-vs-player-at-the-table/#comment-4170</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[erebus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 May 2010 16:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1209#comment-4170</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reasons like these are why i left 3.5 edition. See, i like to play evil characters, ones that look out for themselves above all else, not slaughter children for the fun of it. But i dont act evil, so in 3.5, id get detect evil&#039;d by every pally that joined any game id be in, and instantly be flagged as evil, and overwhelmed before i knew it, before doing anything anyone could be considered evil. You may say thats the group you played with, and that is partially it. Causing party divisions is never an easy task to deal with, especially when its in character. My new party isnt opposed to me being evil, I tend to play the &quot;house&quot; type character. Sure he&#039;s an asshole, but he disarms the traps, unlocks the doors when you need to, so you keep him around despite his brash additude.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reasons like these are why i left 3.5 edition. See, i like to play evil characters, ones that look out for themselves above all else, not slaughter children for the fun of it. But i dont act evil, so in 3.5, id get detect evil&#8217;d by every pally that joined any game id be in, and instantly be flagged as evil, and overwhelmed before i knew it, before doing anything anyone could be considered evil. You may say thats the group you played with, and that is partially it. Causing party divisions is never an easy task to deal with, especially when its in character. My new party isnt opposed to me being evil, I tend to play the &#8220;house&#8221; type character. Sure he&#8217;s an asshole, but he disarms the traps, unlocks the doors when you need to, so you keep him around despite his brash additude.</p>
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		<title>By: LordVreeg</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/10/22/warstories-player-vs-player-at-the-table/#comment-1619</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LordVreeg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1209#comment-1619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A good cautionary tale.

I heard a few other people mention what they or their GM would do in this situation.  The reason they know this is because of some level of pre existing social contract, whether official or not.

And that is what I would take out of this post and the resultant responses.  It really helps to give the players the lowdown before the group plays.  I know of a number of DM&#039;s who actually have preprinted &#039;codes of conduct&#039;, but bringing it up the first session works as well.

Good luck.  Keep the Faith.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good cautionary tale.</p>
<p>I heard a few other people mention what they or their GM would do in this situation.  The reason they know this is because of some level of pre existing social contract, whether official or not.</p>
<p>And that is what I would take out of this post and the resultant responses.  It really helps to give the players the lowdown before the group plays.  I know of a number of DM&#8217;s who actually have preprinted &#8216;codes of conduct&#8217;, but bringing it up the first session works as well.</p>
<p>Good luck.  Keep the Faith.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/10/22/warstories-player-vs-player-at-the-table/#comment-1618</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 04:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1209#comment-1618</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[yoink! i haven&#039;t seen this kind of thing since we were teenagers, and that was only because we had a guy playing with us who had a personality disorder. 

i can&#039;t fathom adults resorting to childish antics like that. 

i can comprehend PCvPC conflict over the NPC item if it was in character, if everyone was happy with the consequences i could see death via roleplay but not not in player anger. 

i&#039;m truly shocked. i must point out to my players how glad i am that they are all on the same page as me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yoink! i haven&#8217;t seen this kind of thing since we were teenagers, and that was only because we had a guy playing with us who had a personality disorder. </p>
<p>i can&#8217;t fathom adults resorting to childish antics like that. </p>
<p>i can comprehend PCvPC conflict over the NPC item if it was in character, if everyone was happy with the consequences i could see death via roleplay but not not in player anger. </p>
<p>i&#8217;m truly shocked. i must point out to my players how glad i am that they are all on the same page as me.</p>
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		<title>By: Colmarr</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/10/22/warstories-player-vs-player-at-the-table/#comment-1615</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Colmarr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1209#comment-1615</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PPS. One of the fundamental rules that my current DM plays by is that you can argue with other PCs as much as you want (and we do), but the minute you attack them, your PC becomes an NPC and you&#039;re rolling a new character.

It&#039;s then up to the DM what the outcome of the attack is because the DM is controlling the attacking NPC.

PPPS. @Newbie: I hope it all works out for you, but it&#039;s gonna be hard to pull this group back together. The first PC death was bad enough, but the later retaliation (particularly as it came in the middle of an encounter) is likely to have fractured group unity pretty badly.

If you do mansge to get your players back together, I think you all need to sit down and have a roundtable about the games meta-morality. What is and isn&#039;t acceptable, and how to handle intra-party conflict from a metagame perspective.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PPS. One of the fundamental rules that my current DM plays by is that you can argue with other PCs as much as you want (and we do), but the minute you attack them, your PC becomes an NPC and you&#8217;re rolling a new character.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s then up to the DM what the outcome of the attack is because the DM is controlling the attacking NPC.</p>
<p>PPPS. @Newbie: I hope it all works out for you, but it&#8217;s gonna be hard to pull this group back together. The first PC death was bad enough, but the later retaliation (particularly as it came in the middle of an encounter) is likely to have fractured group unity pretty badly.</p>
<p>If you do mansge to get your players back together, I think you all need to sit down and have a roundtable about the games meta-morality. What is and isn&#8217;t acceptable, and how to handle intra-party conflict from a metagame perspective.</p>
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