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	<title>Comments on: Imposing a :30 time limit on 4th ed. players</title>
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	<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/08/24/imposing-a-30-time-limit-on-4th-ed-players/</link>
	<description>An Ennie Nominated D&#38;D Blog &#38; Podcast.  Home of tutorials, advice, and downloads for new DM&#039;s</description>
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		<title>By: randal1975</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/08/24/imposing-a-30-time-limit-on-4th-ed-players/#comment-11669</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[randal1975]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1055#comment-11669</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amicable met face cards as for the champion branch and were started since the uninteresting commuter thereafter the fatto&#039;s prizefight open door the adventitious people. http://codaxe.com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amicable met face cards as for the champion branch and were started since the uninteresting commuter thereafter the fatto&#8217;s prizefight open door the adventitious people. <a href="http://codaxe.com" rel="nofollow">http://codaxe.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Khovaros</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/08/24/imposing-a-30-time-limit-on-4th-ed-players/#comment-2775</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Khovaros]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1055#comment-2775</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We use a combination of the battle chip and timer system.  The timer is 1 minute and we haven&#039;t had an issue with anyone beinf unable to declare their actions in that time (if they did, they jsut fall to 1 point behind the next actor int he initiative order).  If they get their turn completed in a  minute they get a chip that they can bank to eventually buy back encounter powers, healing surges and dailys, etc.  We got three fights in a single night, which is excellent for us (about 2.5-3 hrs gaming time.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We use a combination of the battle chip and timer system.  The timer is 1 minute and we haven&#8217;t had an issue with anyone beinf unable to declare their actions in that time (if they did, they jsut fall to 1 point behind the next actor int he initiative order).  If they get their turn completed in a  minute they get a chip that they can bank to eventually buy back encounter powers, healing surges and dailys, etc.  We got three fights in a single night, which is excellent for us (about 2.5-3 hrs gaming time.)</p>
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		<title>By: kjwinin</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/08/24/imposing-a-30-time-limit-on-4th-ed-players/#comment-2481</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kjwinin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 16:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1055#comment-2481</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My DM uses a single timer for the entire initiative round. Anyone at the bottom of the order who hasn&#039;t completed declaring their actions by the time the time is up, loses the rest of their turn. Any time left over is saved as &quot;bonus time&quot; for the next round. this isn&#039;t enforced for every combat, however. usually just when we are in an especially hectic situation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My DM uses a single timer for the entire initiative round. Anyone at the bottom of the order who hasn&#8217;t completed declaring their actions by the time the time is up, loses the rest of their turn. Any time left over is saved as &#8220;bonus time&#8221; for the next round. this isn&#8217;t enforced for every combat, however. usually just when we are in an especially hectic situation.</p>
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		<title>By: kaeosdad</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/08/24/imposing-a-30-time-limit-on-4th-ed-players/#comment-1396</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kaeosdad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 02:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1055#comment-1396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@jonathan: hey cool! I came up with a similar idea, but after playing with it for awhile 2 minutes per player is just to short and hectic. I&#039;d recommend for a balanced encounter making the timer set at 30 minutes for 5 players(6 minutes per player). If it&#039;s easy make it 4 and harder 8 minutes. I playtested this a few times and it works well. The players were motivated as they were all in the same boat the healing surge loss became acceptable to them as it encouraged the slower players to keep up with the faster ones.

As for the diminishing xp bonus don&#039;t. At least not in a losing bonus xp per minute sort of way, it&#039;ll just bum the players out. I&#039;ve tried a few methods in regards to bonus xp and I think the best method is to give them a bonus if they overcame insane odds or bypassed a situation with cleverness or ingenuity. This will have a sort of meta effect if you let your players know exactly what types of actions rewards what types of bonuses. But the worst thing to do is to penalize, even a bonus xp reward, it ends up with the same effect as negative reinforcement. 

Another good type of bonus xp reward in combat is the role playing bonus, which is any player who does not break character and meta game gets a bonus reward(5%). This is something to do with players that are hardcore into acting, but not something to force upon casual players so the reward isn&#039;t that great but it&#039;s there.

Oh I almost forgot....

One last thing, this is something that I&#039;ve tried and it balances out the healing surge loss for everyone, but when the timer runs out in addition to losing a healing surge ever player immediately gets an action point that they must use during their next turn. Sort of a momentum bonus. I thought about cutting down the enemies hp by a quarter since the players are losing a healing surge, but felt not only was that unrealistic but kinda lame. The instant action point however at least gives the players a chance to even out the playing field, so they could potentially cut down a quarters worth of enemy hp but they could also use that extra action point to do some cool stunt... or they coul bail haha!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jonathan: hey cool! I came up with a similar idea, but after playing with it for awhile 2 minutes per player is just to short and hectic. I&#8217;d recommend for a balanced encounter making the timer set at 30 minutes for 5 players(6 minutes per player). If it&#8217;s easy make it 4 and harder 8 minutes. I playtested this a few times and it works well. The players were motivated as they were all in the same boat the healing surge loss became acceptable to them as it encouraged the slower players to keep up with the faster ones.</p>
<p>As for the diminishing xp bonus don&#8217;t. At least not in a losing bonus xp per minute sort of way, it&#8217;ll just bum the players out. I&#8217;ve tried a few methods in regards to bonus xp and I think the best method is to give them a bonus if they overcame insane odds or bypassed a situation with cleverness or ingenuity. This will have a sort of meta effect if you let your players know exactly what types of actions rewards what types of bonuses. But the worst thing to do is to penalize, even a bonus xp reward, it ends up with the same effect as negative reinforcement. </p>
<p>Another good type of bonus xp reward in combat is the role playing bonus, which is any player who does not break character and meta game gets a bonus reward(5%). This is something to do with players that are hardcore into acting, but not something to force upon casual players so the reward isn&#8217;t that great but it&#8217;s there.</p>
<p>Oh I almost forgot&#8230;.</p>
<p>One last thing, this is something that I&#8217;ve tried and it balances out the healing surge loss for everyone, but when the timer runs out in addition to losing a healing surge ever player immediately gets an action point that they must use during their next turn. Sort of a momentum bonus. I thought about cutting down the enemies hp by a quarter since the players are losing a healing surge, but felt not only was that unrealistic but kinda lame. The instant action point however at least gives the players a chance to even out the playing field, so they could potentially cut down a quarters worth of enemy hp but they could also use that extra action point to do some cool stunt&#8230; or they coul bail haha!</p>
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		<title>By: jonathan</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/08/24/imposing-a-30-time-limit-on-4th-ed-players/#comment-1392</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonathan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1055#comment-1392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We tried the 30s rule and it didn&#039;t work becuase some players are very casual, so each week its like they are relearning their characters, and then other players read the PHB daily and they get impatient when the slowbies are &quot;holding them up&quot;. the timer creates tension, yes.. but not the good kind.

Instead, what we have done is set up a timer for the players. The player timer is for each complete initiative round - 2 minutes per player. We have six players, so every 12 minutes the timer goes off. Everyone looses a healing surge due to &quot;battle weariness&quot; when that bell rings. Of course, we stop the clock while it is my turn.

I&#039;ve also considered adding a diminishing XP bonus system where players get a 100% bonus to XP for the encounter, but the bonus drops 3% per minute of combat - thus any battle lasting longer than 33 minutes gets no bonus.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We tried the 30s rule and it didn&#8217;t work becuase some players are very casual, so each week its like they are relearning their characters, and then other players read the PHB daily and they get impatient when the slowbies are &#8220;holding them up&#8221;. the timer creates tension, yes.. but not the good kind.</p>
<p>Instead, what we have done is set up a timer for the players. The player timer is for each complete initiative round &#8211; 2 minutes per player. We have six players, so every 12 minutes the timer goes off. Everyone looses a healing surge due to &#8220;battle weariness&#8221; when that bell rings. Of course, we stop the clock while it is my turn.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also considered adding a diminishing XP bonus system where players get a 100% bonus to XP for the encounter, but the bonus drops 3% per minute of combat &#8211; thus any battle lasting longer than 33 minutes gets no bonus.</p>
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		<title>By: Time Stop, Sept 9th</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/08/24/imposing-a-30-time-limit-on-4th-ed-players/#comment-1370</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Time Stop, Sept 9th]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 12:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1055#comment-1370</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Newbie DM shares his idea about Imposing a :30 time limit on 4th ed. players. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Newbie DM shares his idea about Imposing a :30 time limit on 4th ed. players. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Icosahedrophilia</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/08/24/imposing-a-30-time-limit-on-4th-ed-players/#comment-1325</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Icosahedrophilia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 04:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1055#comment-1325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My group has agreed to use a similar rule, and I also ordered a :30 sand timer to track this. However, my timer didn&#039;t arrive before our most recent game session, so I have no actual play experience to report yet. Our rule, to be precise, is that if you don&#039;t announce your PC&#039;s action within :30 of the DM (me) announcing that it&#039;s your turn, your character&#039;s action defaults to &quot;delay.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My group has agreed to use a similar rule, and I also ordered a :30 sand timer to track this. However, my timer didn&#8217;t arrive before our most recent game session, so I have no actual play experience to report yet. Our rule, to be precise, is that if you don&#8217;t announce your PC&#8217;s action within :30 of the DM (me) announcing that it&#8217;s your turn, your character&#8217;s action defaults to &#8220;delay.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/08/24/imposing-a-30-time-limit-on-4th-ed-players/#comment-1305</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jake]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1055#comment-1305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;d have to trust your players a lot to allow attack + damage pre-rolls.  Personally, I would find it difficult to use a daily power on a roll that I knew wasn&#039;t going to hit...  Maybe I&#039;m just a cheating bastard, but I don&#039;t think I&#039;m the only one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;d have to trust your players a lot to allow attack + damage pre-rolls.  Personally, I would find it difficult to use a daily power on a roll that I knew wasn&#8217;t going to hit&#8230;  Maybe I&#8217;m just a cheating bastard, but I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m the only one.</p>
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		<title>By: Oz</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/08/24/imposing-a-30-time-limit-on-4th-ed-players/#comment-1304</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Oz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1055#comment-1304</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like the :30 second rule.  People seem to forget, you not only get your 30 seconds to plot your move, you get all of the time between your turns.  If a sudden twist happens that throws off your planned move right before your turn, think fast or hold your action to give yourself time to think.

My players know if they need time to figure something out, they can hold their action.

I don&#039;t think this rule punishes players that pay attention.  If the combat is too fast for tactical-minded players to keep up, maybe they should play more tactical games.  Not every player is going to fit in with every group&#039;s style.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the :30 second rule.  People seem to forget, you not only get your 30 seconds to plot your move, you get all of the time between your turns.  If a sudden twist happens that throws off your planned move right before your turn, think fast or hold your action to give yourself time to think.</p>
<p>My players know if they need time to figure something out, they can hold their action.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think this rule punishes players that pay attention.  If the combat is too fast for tactical-minded players to keep up, maybe they should play more tactical games.  Not every player is going to fit in with every group&#8217;s style.</p>
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		<title>By: Noumenon</title>
		<link>http://newbiedm.com/2009/08/24/imposing-a-30-time-limit-on-4th-ed-players/#comment-1303</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Noumenon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newbiedm.com/?p=1055#comment-1303</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;he actually had a spreadsheet and hand made booklet to help keep it straight&lt;/i&gt;

I have a printout called &quot;Chroma&#039;s Action List&quot; for my 4E wizard.  Helps me remember second wind is an option for standard actions, has all my to-hits and critical hit damage precalculated.  Also the list of minor actions -- drink potion, activate familiar, use duelist&#039;s dagger daily, use orb of continuance -- so I don&#039;t forget and don&#039;t have to think what my options are. It&#039;s a two-page table, but I play faster than anyone else at the table.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>he actually had a spreadsheet and hand made booklet to help keep it straight</i></p>
<p>I have a printout called &#8220;Chroma&#8217;s Action List&#8221; for my 4E wizard.  Helps me remember second wind is an option for standard actions, has all my to-hits and critical hit damage precalculated.  Also the list of minor actions &#8212; drink potion, activate familiar, use duelist&#8217;s dagger daily, use orb of continuance &#8212; so I don&#8217;t forget and don&#8217;t have to think what my options are. It&#8217;s a two-page table, but I play faster than anyone else at the table.</p>
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