I do think, however that a lot of it has to do with perceptions of the new system and familiarity with the older system these peolple may have been playing.

There is an article in this months Dragon that tackles the issue of “lack of roleplaying” in 4th edition, it’s very good and would encourage people feeling this way to read it.

But yes, you are right.

My attitude may stem from never having sat at a table to play d&d with a woman in my 20 years of playing.

“But then the question becomes, why play d&d… it’s always been a combat-centric game anyway.”

but not every player or player character is combat centric. having played a part in campaigns spanning years in which some characters never raised their voices let alone weapons against a monster or npc i find your remark somewhat cold. not everyone wants to be a martial character. otherwise parties lean toward an homogeny thats hardly making the most of gamers imaginations. some of the most fulfilling sessions i have had have had no encounters what so ever. ultimately with regard to gender women and men will opt for different types of characters regardless of gender. combat centricity may not be a problem but a problem has still been identified. if chris kings observations are indicative of broader demographics and indeed female gamers are turning their backs on the game then somethings not working. i would wager that the phallocentricity of your “why bother” attitude isnt helping either. had you expressed concern about the issue of an exodus of female gamers i might not be so cynical.

I must admit, all versions of D&D appear to have been designed with teenage boys in mind. But to illustrate the problem, one of the women playing in my previous campaign explicitly wanted a non-combat character. She would not have played otherwise. There is no such thing as a non-combat character in the 4th Edition.” – Chris King

This is without a doubt one of the best and fairest criticisms of the 4th edition I have come by.

Gaming (table top and video games) have evolved into something that you can get into quickly, have a rewarding experience, and then bail.

I think that sounds pretty accurate… although if you’re not trying to target the “next generation”, don’t place value much on playing the “current and best supported version” (what difference does that really make outside of RPGA?), and aren’t comparing it exclusively to 3/3.5 (eg. B/X, AD&D) then 4e loses a lot of those positive qualities for me.

AD&D (“1st Edition”) had the advantage over many other RPGs that it was so abstract that the mechanics of the fighting stayed well out of the way of roleplaying and story. The rules of editions 2, 3 and 3.5 got involved with non-combat play, but weren’t too cumbersome. I feel that 4th edition tries to more extensively mechanic roleplay, and it very strongly encourages dungeon crawls.

All the hype before the arrival of 4th edition was about how it was simpler and easier. Really the only simpler things are creating encounters, and reading stat blocks. Neither of those is a difference in the rules, merely in their presentation (stat blocks) and support (D&D Insider tools, which are necessary only because the system got so much more complex).

4th Edition is great for having an inexperienced, distracted DM throw together a combat encounter for a beer and pretzels group. Running it is a different matter, with all the marks, ongoing effects, and so on. And the process of creating and running skill challenges is, well, challenging.

I’m still working on starting up my new campaign with 4th ed rules, but I’m keeping my eyes open for indications that we should switch to 3.5, or something else. The main advantages for me of 4th ed:

- I’m starting this new campaign (after 27 years of the previous one) largely for the next generation, and from what I’ve heard and seen that generation (either because of their ages or more likely their culture) find 4e more appealing than previous editions of D&D.

- I, like most players and DMs, prefer to play the current and best-supported edition, all else being equal.

- If you use skill challenges in moderation, 4e does a pretty good job of staying out of the way of roleplaying.

- In editions 3 and 3.5 the rather-elegant and flexible rules included some serious holes. One of those holes was a substantial problem for my new campaign setting.

Reasons to avoid 4th Edition:

- The cost of the many books. Instead of just the PHB, many (most?) players will need the 4th ed PHB, PHB 2 and/or PHB 3, and at least one Power book. That’s a minimum of 2 or 3 books — a substantial increase in the cost to play (ignoring the waste of any prior investment). The Compendium helps, here, so players might be able to get away with a DDI membership (which is pretty expensive on its own, compared to previous RPG costs) and borrowing the rule books for those things missing from the Compendium (and there are plenty).

- The World of Warcraft feel of combat, which seems designed to appeal to teenage males. Every woman I know and from whom I’ve heard an opinion about 4th Edition dislikes the new rules. I don’t relish going from a 30-50% female gaming group to a 0-10% female gaming group because the rules were modified to appeal to testosterone.

I must admit, all versions of D&D appear to have been designed with teenage boys in mind. But to illustrate the problem, one of the women playing in my previous campaign explicitly wanted a non-combat character. She would not have played otherwise. There is no such thing as a non-combat character in the 4th Edition.

In summary: Do you want a story, or just a game? If the latter, 4th Edition is probably for you. If you want to effectively write a group novel… it really depends on your taste in fiction.

If you want a low prep game, try something like Spirit of the Century, Dogs in the Vineyard, or Primetime Adventures. I can run those games with no prep at all and have never had a bad session doing so. Even Burning Wheel, which is far crunchier (at least at first) than 4E is much lower prep – it takes me less than an hour to prep for a session in my current campaign and all the players (who largely come from traditional D&D-type backgrounds) love it.

So, yes 4E is appealing for the change in game style and complexity compared to 3E but it’s by far not a low prep or particularly “good” game for me.